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Ethanol fuels controversy for those who fill up frequently

The Clarion-Ledger -- Phillip Tait, who owns Advanced Tree Care of Brandon, filled up 12 of his chainsaws with ethanol gasoline.

"I lost $5,200 in one week when all my saws blew up. So I got new saws, blew them up, then I found out that ethanol gas was the problem. Now who refunds the small guy?" he said.

He said he was never told there was a difference between the gasolines.

Mississippi Senator Thad Cochran is co-sponsoring the Domestic Fuels Act of 2012 (S.2264) which, among other things, would allow retailers who meet the EPA standards to gain liability protection in their efforts to make biofuels, such as E15 and higher ethanol blends, more widely available.

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Submitted Jul 17, 2012 By: BuyCheapSellHi

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honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,599 Points:1,607,570 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Jul 20, 2012 4:02:52 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse most ppl don't realize how much corn and soybean are affecting our daily lives: animal feed, fuel additive, food for people, chemical products, etc.
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,599 Points:1,607,570 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Jul 20, 2012 4:01:10 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse EtOH has never been the answer and at a time when it looks like we will be falling severely short of corn crops, we can't afford corn for EtOH.
Tekkersmom57 Champion Author Syracuse Posts:1,869 Points:699,240 Joined:May 2010	Message Posted: Jul 18, 2012 9:43:08 PM Ignore Tekkersmom57 Report Abuse Great idea, let's use corn for ethanol when there is a draught and corn will be in short supply!
LeftLane1 Champion Author Georgia Posts:13,939 Points:1,862,475 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jul 18, 2012 7:53:59 AM Ignore LeftLane1 Report Abuse ethanol gasoline is CRAP, I dont buy the counter-arguments. Food for Fuel is also a CRAP Idea.
justmedc Veteran Author Michigan Posts:382 Points:174,045 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Jul 18, 2012 4:47:05 AM Ignore justmedc Report Abuse ok
pgerassi Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:10,886 Points:2,129,655 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 11:41:42 PM Ignore pgerassi Report Abuse Even if you accept the argument that ethanol eats small engine seals, which I don't, that takes years in order to happen. It wouldn't blow an engine in a week or two. That only comes from mis-fueling with stale, watered or dirty gasoline. Stale gasoline has a bunch of varnish and gum in it which plugs the jets in a few minutes or hours depending on how bad it is. That leads to very lean operation which leads to detonation which destroys an engine in minutes. This is known to be a problem for at least a hundred years even during decades with no ethanol in gas (early engines ran on hydrous ethanol (E94) like Ford's Model T). Gasoline with good amounts of water also leads to quick engine failure. The water doesn't burn or atomizes leading to liquid water in the cylinders of an engine leading to hydrolock where the water doesn't allow piston movement. This is instant engine destruction and you have to tear it apart to get the water out and replace a lot of expensive parts (its cheaper getting a new engine). This is also known for decades even during the leaded gas era where ethanol in gas was very hard to find especially here in the northern states where winter led to condensation in fuel tanks. Up here the common way to solve the problem was to add alcohol (Heet or STP Gas Treatment were two brand names used) to every tank (12-16ozs to every 8 gallons of gasoline you would end up with E1-2). It allows the water to atomize in the carb and pass through good fuel filters and out the tail pipe without doing any damage. Dirty gasoline does the same as stale gasoline, plugging the jets leading to engine destruction in minutes. That is why a good fuel filter is important. Small engines have a shitty simple screen that doesn't do a good job with dirt, water, varnish or gum, but its very cheap. I had a good one (packed paper filter) in a Mazda RX4 (Wankel engine) that stopped all 4, but you had to replace it when it got plugged. It took a while because it held over a cup of those contaminants (far longer than the tiny jets in the 4 barrel carb or the float valve), but it did the job. Those who depend on small engines like my uncle replace the simple screens with filter paper fuel filters because of the junk that gets into the tanks, water (quite common in humid areas or those that have to work in rain), dirt (chainsaws makes lots of wood dust and you trundle through mud frequently), varnish (sometimes you get stale gas from a service station or a pickup that hauls a tank that recently came back from a long service) and gum (same). Sometimes the oil used to mix into the fuel is dirty or watered. Over the winter months when they hardly get used, he drains the tanks and on those which that is hard, he adds fuel stabilizer to prevent varnish and gum. This is why these type of things usually come from piss poor maintenance or none at all.
NOTSOGRN Champion Author Michigan Posts:2,055 Points:1,509,495 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 11:29:03 PM Ignore NOTSOGRN Report Abuse . . Will we have any corn left after this dry spell...how high can ethanol go...
cssco Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,316 Points:1,749,580 Joined:Feb 2006	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 11:07:43 PM Ignore cssco Report Abuse I thought everyone knew that corn is only good for drinking. Right thinking people don't burn it and only animals eat it.
wz Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:2,474 Points:1,275,140 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 11:05:39 PM Ignore wz Report Abuse I hold the EPA liable for engine damage caused by ethanol, but don't count on the courts to back me up. Most judges are just as liberal as the politicians that appoint them. They have to be to get through 8 years of college and law school at ultra-liberal institutions like Harvard and Yale.
jtfftj Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:2,172 Points:1,246,350 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:59:29 PM Ignore jtfftj Report Abuse Another mess up in finding a solution for something that is not a problem that we have to fix.
pgerassi Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:10,886 Points:2,129,655 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:58:32 PM Ignore pgerassi Report Abuse That is a load of BS. My uncle is a contractor and has tons of small 2 cycle and 4 cycle engines in his equipment and not one has a problem with E10 or even E15 (you could get it here for decades (and E20, E25, E30, plus E70, E85, and E100) . This idiot is wants a scape goat for his piss poor maintenance of his chainsaws. Of course he wouldn't point to himself as the real culprit. If it was the gas, it was the shitty gasoline in the fuel he used (stale gasoline plugs up the jets in the carburetor leading to very lean fuel air ratios causing detonation which blows the engine, ethanol unplugs the jets and can run leaner before detonation occurs resolving the problem) or the shitty 2 cycle oil he used (not enough leads to no lubrication and seizing of the pistons blowing the engine) to mix into the fuel for the 2 cycle engines.
Runninmt61 Rookie Author Champaign Posts:92 Points:46,950 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:56:07 PM Ignore Runninmt61 Report Abuse Alcohol has been used to clean oily surfaces, WHAT do engines use for lubrication???
2bigtanks All-Star Author Akron Posts:772 Points:371,610 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:54:22 PM Ignore 2bigtanks Report Abuse There you have it. Ethanol is it bad?
canfranchiser Veteran Author Riverside Posts:418 Points:394,060 Joined:Sep 2010	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:50:42 PM Ignore canfranchiser Report Abuse drop ethanol to max of 6% that would help.
mcmonsta Champion Author Honolulu Posts:3,217 Points:816,595 Joined:Sep 2009	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:50:18 PM Ignore mcmonsta Report Abuse don't tell me...the EPA was wrong.....how can that be...NOT!
yakstar Champion Author Montreal Posts:2,410 Points:477,695 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:49:58 PM Ignore yakstar Report Abuse file a claim...
kgbellman Champion Author Ann Arbor Posts:2,703 Points:729,890 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:47:51 PM Ignore kgbellman Report Abuse not good for all engines
miser709 Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:1,268 Points:1,068,175 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:46:39 PM Ignore miser709 Report Abuse Ethanol should be ban. Corn is food!
langolera Champion Author Akron Posts:1,751 Points:664,030 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:44:42 PM Ignore langolera Report Abuse it has been proven time and time again, older ,odel cars and even newer cars can't take all that ethanol
1fulltank Champion Author Buffalo Posts:7,893 Points:1,542,360 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:44:36 PM Ignore 1fulltank Report Abuse And yet it's still being forced on us in the market. I recently looked for ethanol free gas in our area. Besides marinas, most, if not all, of the places that carried it was found in high test only.
Saunch2012 Veteran Author Pennsylvania Posts:451 Points:111,105 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:44:26 PM Ignore Saunch2012 Report Abuse ok
Colts13 Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,566 Points:547,010 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:43:19 PM Ignore Colts13 Report Abuse Ok
danreino Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:8,337 Points:1,537,705 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:41:08 PM Ignore danreino Report Abuse 250FORD...depends where they're designed for....I had a MN car battery just a few months old that died in Dallas TX less than a year later due to the heat...If ur motor isn't ready for ethanol (regular gas), it's not going to make it.
SteelPenny Champion Author Dallas Posts:30,932 Points:2,605,540 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:40:51 PM Ignore SteelPenny Report Abuse corn is human food not car fuel.
stratlinetime Champion Author Kalamazoo Posts:2,271 Points:561,885 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:40:11 PM Ignore stratlinetime Report Abuse Ok
DandyDapple All-Star Author North Dakota Posts:715 Points:309,320 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:38:20 PM Ignore DandyDapple Report Abuse ethanol sux ...
250FORD Champion Author Minnesota Posts:8,332 Points:1,305,720 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:37:57 PM Ignore 250FORD Report Abuse What a crock of $h1t. The Ethanol didnt do this. ALL small engines can run ethanol, not E-85 but a low rate of blend. The guy either mixed the fuel wrong or tried saving money by running E-85. I've run E-10 for years without a problem and our small engine repair man can even tell the small engines run on it....they look cleaner and have less wear.
jferrara41 All-Star Author Pennsylvania Posts:598 Points:110,665 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:37:43 PM Ignore jferrara41 Report Abuse ok
carman11 Champion Author North Carolina Posts:3,325 Points:689,775 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:36:47 PM Ignore carman11 Report Abuse BEST THING IS TO STOP PRODUCING ETHANOL FUEL. IT IS A LOSSING CAUSE.
granitestater Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:8,812 Points:1,428,800 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:36:24 PM Ignore granitestater Report Abuse death to ethanol...
umitb Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:3,665 Points:841,490 Joined:Apr 2010	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:35:12 PM Ignore umitb Report Abuse ok
GAS1251 Champion Author Texas Posts:5,138 Points:1,624,280 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:34:52 PM Ignore GAS1251 Report Abuse In N Texas, Philips 66 is ethanol-free.
DTrainCanada Champion Author Saskatoon Posts:1,848 Points:1,418,950 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:32:40 PM Ignore DTrainCanada Report Abuse Ethanol sux ...
rxman1 Champion Author Toledo Posts:9,534 Points:1,859,945 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:31:50 PM Ignore rxman1 Report Abuse How about clear labeling onthe pumps?
Cableman66 Champion Author North Carolina Posts:2,105 Points:488,970 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:30:40 PM Ignore Cableman66 Report Abuse Bad news. Watch what you put it in and check the fine print on your operators manual or check with your small engine repair folks for tips.
Rageagainsttm Champion Author Tampa Posts:8,293 Points:1,901,030 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:29:03 PM Ignore Rageagainsttm Report Abuse yes
TheSnowstorm Champion Author Montreal Posts:8,609 Points:1,910,980 Joined:June 2005	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:27:53 PM Ignore TheSnowstorm Report Abuse More proof that ethanol is not the answer and should be removed from all blends of gasoline. It has long since been proven that it does not perform well in any small engine (lawn mower, trimmer, etc) nor in marine (boat) engines. In fact, many automobile manufacturers suggest to avoid using it or not to use more than 10~15% blends. Why are governments still trying to flog this as the answer? [Edited by: TheSnowstorm at 7/18/2012 12:29:33 AM EST]
GRUMPY55 Champion Author California Posts:1,619 Points:421,450 Joined:Oct 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:23:32 PM Ignore GRUMPY55 Report Abuse ok
RBob Champion Author Portland Posts:3,359 Points:2,344,950 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:21:26 PM Ignore RBob Report Abuse If you believe this article I have some land to sell you, on an astroid in outer space... Ethanol does not blow up chain saws...sorry.
FlyNFool Champion Author South Carolina Posts:8,234 Points:1,683,250 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:20:23 PM Ignore FlyNFool Report Abuse That's why I look for pure gas.
mgune9 All-Star Author Dallas Posts:914 Points:200,395 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:08:38 PM Ignore mgune9 Report Abuse ethanol has been a big big mistake and a horrible mistake on the american public and tax payers
bigdipperMS Champion Author Mississippi Posts:1,502 Points:534,725 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:08:07 PM Ignore bigdipperMS Report Abuse E-10 sucks and E-15 is a killer for small engines. The EPA needs to be reined in. I'm not to happy with my Senator and his bill. He is to moderate and we plan on replacing him this November.
Pigboat Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:14,820 Points:2,843,865 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:03:54 PM Ignore Pigboat Report Abuse Ethanol is nothing more than a "feel good" program for the environmentalist whackos. Same goes for compact fluorescent lights. Have you ever looked at the EPA's recommendation on cleaning up a broken one? It's LUDICROUS! The EPA is SO out of control that it is ridiculous. Abolish that department and watch the economy flourish. Mark my words.
boatmen Champion Author New York Posts:3,075 Points:621,605 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 10:02:56 PM Ignore boatmen Report Abuse And just wait With the Shortage of corn crops around the corner Here We Go Prices up up up
clermont40miles Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:10,554 Points:1,770,090 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 9:59:57 PM Ignore clermont40miles Report Abuse Ethanol is not good unless engines are made to run it. Like the Abrams tank - it can burn almost anything. But we don't run hi-tech, expensive turbine engines.
Agarre Champion Author Richmond Posts:1,335 Points:263,785 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 9:58:03 PM Ignore Agarre Report Abuse OK
cupboy Champion Author Salt Lake City Posts:2,776 Points:1,119,560 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 9:57:10 PM Ignore cupboy Report Abuse Do not click on the "Read the Full Article" link. I did and had to get out as it constantly tried writing cookies and downloading junk to my computer. Couldn't even read the article. Now to clear my cache.....
A2J Champion Author Richmond Posts:3,070 Points:601,975 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 9:57:00 PM Ignore A2J Report Abuse so ?
jimedB Veteran Author Riverside Posts:390 Points:78,840 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 9:54:46 PM Ignore jimedB Report Abuse If the ethanol does not eat up the seals in your fuel system and cause your car to go up in flames it will clog up your intake and EGR systems causing poor performance and mileage and increased emissions. Either way the car owner looses money or their car. Isn't this another great government mandate?
EmperorsFinest Champion Author Chicago Posts:1,564 Points:340,870 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Jul 17, 2012 9:53:27 PM Ignore EmperorsFinest Report Abuse Tubular