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New EPA rule could upend high court runoff case

AP -- The issue was a new rule from the Environmental Protection Agency dealing with runoff from logging roads. As it happened, the regulation was issued on Friday, less than 72 hours before a Supreme Court argument dealing with the same topic. The regulation probably will keep the court from issuing a meaningful ruling in the dispute between timber interests and environmentalists.

The new regulation makes clear that the muddy water coming off a logging road should be considered the same as water running off a farm field — not like the water that flows out a pipe from a factory and requires a special permit.

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Submitted Dec 04, 2012 By: fracknsave

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honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,818 Points:1,636,245 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 3:44:04 AM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse depends on what's in the muddy waters.
rjhenn Champion Author Des Moines Posts:22,605 Points:2,256,100 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Dec 7, 2012 12:50:51 AM Ignore rjhenn Report Abuse Hilarious how many people took the article to mean just the opposite of what it said, apparently because they're unable to see anything that doesn't fit with their prejudices.
preacherjohn Champion Author Modesto Posts:4,096 Points:1,943,310 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:44:52 PM Ignore preacherjohn Report Abuse EPA is way behind the times..logging has been going for many Centuries.
nomad228 Champion Author Columbus Posts:3,143 Points:580,215 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:40:57 PM Ignore nomad228 Report Abuse no duh. : ) water running off a mountain from a road is not the same as runoff from a factory allowing waste water to run into the waterways used to make drinkable water. and all they need to do is pass a bill/law that requires mining companies to build roads that don't allow excess run off directly into the streams/creeks/rivers. it has been done for over 2 centuries in kentucky/west virginia and many many other states.since the beginning of hydraulic mining was found to release all kinds of nasty underground chemicals/minerals .....shall we say poisoning cattle/livestock. if you ask me the epa is way behind on this one.
Quick68 Champion Author Columbus Posts:8,448 Points:1,253,500 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:15:22 PM Ignore Quick68 Report Abuse Does that mean the states will have to stop using salt on the roads? Salt is much worse going into the rivers than mud.
Zonk Champion Author Michigan Posts:6,621 Points:2,129,715 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:14:14 PM Ignore Zonk Report Abuse Hard to believe a Supreme Court decision could be that slanted.
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,985 Points:440,290 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:12:55 PM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse @clermont40miles keeps saying "Green is Red". He's right. Green is the color of money and Red is the color of the Republican Party. Class dismissed.
yakstar Champion Author Montreal Posts:2,555 Points:506,475 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:12:18 PM Ignore yakstar Report Abuse hard to believe...
joel27nc Champion Author Raleigh Posts:10,672 Points:1,885,095 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:11:51 PM Ignore joel27nc Report Abuse what
tedjm1 Champion Author New York Posts:5,609 Points:800,300 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:11:48 PM Ignore tedjm1 Report Abuse More rulings, more questions, more reviews, more rulings......
mfeldstein Champion Author Ottawa Posts:8,301 Points:1,956,230 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:11:31 PM Ignore mfeldstein Report Abuse So what's the Supreme Court going to do about this affront?
streetcars Champion Author Toledo Posts:12,404 Points:2,634,340 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:11:02 PM Ignore streetcars Report Abuse Gonna treat all roads the same? That is gonna cost a lot of money!
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,985 Points:440,290 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:10:54 PM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse Watch the movie "Lincoln", @rjoeh, and Daniel Day Lewis will explain the use of presidential power.
boatfloyd Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:1,858 Points:415,675 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:08:48 PM Ignore boatfloyd Report Abuse Sounds Good.
Rageagainsttm Champion Author Tampa Posts:8,422 Points:1,927,885 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:07:27 PM Ignore Rageagainsttm Report Abuse way to go
rawdog1313 Champion Author Lexington Posts:3,439 Points:1,670,505 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:06:13 PM Ignore rawdog1313 Report Abuse It should be regulated and held accountable! God knows they don't have enough sense to regulate themselves!
bridgerunner Champion Author Virginia Posts:4,922 Points:1,033,560 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:05:30 PM Ignore bridgerunner Report Abuse Stop with the crazy rulings.
jkpsr Champion Author New Jersey Posts:4,207 Points:1,127,915 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:05:28 PM Ignore jkpsr Report Abuse The right hand does not know what the left hand is doing.
jtfftj Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:2,214 Points:1,273,840 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 10:01:25 PM Ignore jtfftj Report Abuse Political games to the nth degree
frostyWV Champion Author West Virginia Posts:2,339 Points:519,235 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:59:59 PM Ignore frostyWV Report Abuse ok
clermont40miles Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:10,754 Points:1,799,595 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:51:25 PM Ignore clermont40miles Report Abuse Shut down the EPA jackboot thugs. Green is red.
mfeldstein Champion Author Ottawa Posts:8,301 Points:1,956,230 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:47:34 PM Ignore mfeldstein Report Abuse If cows or horses use the road and if transport trucks use the rad, then poop and oil leaks in the runoff, if into a creek, could pollute the waterway. People might drink the stuff and get sick or die. Kids understand this.
Redink Champion Author Indianapolis Posts:7,312 Points:1,321,025 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:47:33 PM Ignore Redink Report Abuse Stupid
yyc2yow All-Star Author Ottawa Posts:777 Points:595,895 Joined:Dec 2009	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:46:38 PM Ignore yyc2yow Report Abuse Don't they have better things to do?
rjoeh Champion Author Michigan Posts:7,207 Points:2,496,565 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:44:43 PM Ignore rjoeh Report Abuse Another example of the current administration enacting rules without the blessing of actual enacted law to support them... yet the rules can and often have the same effect as LAW. Most have been made arbitarily with little support from the public.
sickhp Champion Author San Antonio Posts:1,487 Points:543,440 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:40:28 PM Ignore sickhp Report Abuse EPA needs disbanded.
boatmen Champion Author New York Posts:3,201 Points:648,630 Joined:Jan 2011	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:37:27 PM Ignore boatmen Report Abuse Guessing we will see as it plays out
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,985 Points:440,290 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:31:34 PM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse How about harvesting lumber responsibly instead of clear-cutting the whole side of the mountain, @TBRR? Maybe that way, you won't get so many mudslides when it rains. And as for work ethic, you really think that someone who makes millions by tapping a few keystrokes for a hedge fund is working hard? Time to rethink your values. Seriously.
mstearno Champion Author Dayton Posts:8,174 Points:1,755,920 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:31:28 PM Ignore mstearno Report Abuse EPA stinks they make rules but could care less about the cost
atdinut Champion Author California Posts:1,616 Points:360,445 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:25:43 PM Ignore atdinut Report Abuse Nice to see some sensibility taking place!
TBRR Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:3,716 Points:605,975 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:24:05 PM Ignore TBRR Report Abuse there goes the stupid EPA again under obummer trying to shut down the lumber industry. welcome to the dark ages for this country. where can i get some whale oil for the lamps? Push work ethic, not redistribution of wealth.
gd83goldwinger Champion Author South Bend Posts:1,428 Points:519,230 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:20:14 PM Ignore gd83goldwinger Report Abuse This one keep a eye out what happens.
pacecar68 Champion Author Oakland Posts:4,767 Points:888,445 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:18:26 PM Ignore pacecar68 Report Abuse ok.
WIPACKERFAN Champion Author Chicago Posts:8,939 Points:1,870,175 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:16:02 PM Ignore WIPACKERFAN Report Abuse OK
gsayeg1 All-Star Author Milwaukee Posts:877 Points:151,375 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:15:13 PM Ignore gsayeg1 Report Abuse way over my head
EconomiserAZ All-Star Author Tucson Posts:836 Points:158,890 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:15:02 PM Ignore EconomiserAZ Report Abuse The EPA has delusions of adequacy.
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,985 Points:440,290 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:13:53 PM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse Hey everyone, I must be psychic! I foresaw that a bunch of Internet trolls would post nonsense messages on this forum about disbanding the EPA. Next, I'm off to come up with next week's Powerball numbers.
30mpg80 Champion Author Lexington Posts:10,265 Points:1,514,580 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:13:39 PM Ignore 30mpg80 Report Abuse Makes sense to me
davenles Champion Author Texas Posts:3,336 Points:745,610 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:05:18 PM Ignore davenles Report Abuse This EPA reg actually makes sense.
bvrbill Champion Author Eugene Posts:3,440 Points:545,250 Joined:Jul 2011	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:03:32 PM Ignore bvrbill Report Abuse Not sure what to think about this.
John747 Champion Author Chicago Posts:474,605 Points:3,652,610 Joined:Aug 2001	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:03:18 PM Ignore John747 Report Abuse Another example of the Obama administration doing their best killing off jobs!
BREW9 Champion Author Tampa Posts:1,020 Points:2,939,660 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:03:10 PM Ignore BREW9 Report Abuse ok
TWS658 Champion Author Portland Posts:4,543 Points:950,875 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:01:46 PM Ignore TWS658 Report Abuse It is just runoff from the landscape in the forest and not some sort of hazardous chemical.
suzmar Champion Author Texas Posts:2,223 Points:896,185 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:01:40 PM Ignore suzmar Report Abuse We need a lot less EPA.
FlyNFool Champion Author South Carolina Posts:8,379 Points:1,712,675 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:01:34 PM Ignore FlyNFool Report Abuse Time to defund the EPA and save some money!
wayoung56 Champion Author Alabama Posts:2,920 Points:845,010 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:01:32 PM Ignore wayoung56 Report Abuse Hmmm...
tco9436 Champion Author Connecticut Posts:1,807 Points:743,650 Joined:Mar 2010	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:01:18 PM Ignore tco9436 Report Abuse Uggggh
OGW Champion Author London Posts:5,446 Points:1,558,085 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 8:59:42 PM Ignore OGW Report Abuse Water running off most logging roads is contaminated!
walkingtall Champion Author Toronto Posts:4,134 Points:1,148,405 Joined:Nov 2004	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 8:58:18 PM Ignore walkingtall Report Abuse We need less regulations.
REKEY Champion Author South Carolina Posts:8,718 Points:1,726,120 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 8:55:00 PM Ignore REKEY Report Abuse Odd!