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Solar power adds to nonusers' costs

The San Fransico Chronical -- By Christopher Martin and Mark Chediak -- Booming rooftop solar installations in California are bringing an unwelcome surprise to the homes and businesses that don't have the devices: an extra $1.3 billion added to their annual bills, more than half of that for Pacific Gas & Electric customers.

Power companies in the state, the nation's biggest for solar power, are required to buy electricity from home solar generators at the same price they resell it to other customers, meaning utilities earn nothing to cover their fixed costs. The rules are shortsighted because eventually rates must be raised to make up the difference, according to Southern California Edison, which has joined with competitors to estimate potential losses.
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"The problem exacerbates with each new system that goes on a roof," said Mark Bachman, . . .

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Submitted Dec 19, 2012 By: SUVFan

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LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,615 Points:1,207,555 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 3:41:46 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse what? No sharp retort? Must be above your head.
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,969 Points:755,380 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 7:50:53 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse I agree letemeatcake, I get an impression every time nsdp types as well! [Edited by: drpepperTX at 12/21/2012 9:54:07 AM EST]
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,969 Points:755,380 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Dec 21, 2012 7:49:13 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse "No, the idiot reporter doesn't know NARUC accounting..." ====================== Sounds like Cliff Clavin is hanging around on GB! ;^)
LetemEatCake Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:5,615 Points:1,207,555 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 9:07:25 PM Ignore LetemEatCake Report Abuse nsdp...I'm getting impressed about every time you open you mouth!
nsdp Champion Author San Antonio Posts:1,117 Points:47,340 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 11:53:13 AM Ignore nsdp Report Abuse No, the idiot reporter doesn't know NARUC accounting principles and used GAAP instead. NARUC is for rate making and GAAP is for tax and public finance. There are credits in the NARUC account system to compensate. Try to explain that to any one who isn't knowledgeable including many CPAs and their eyes will glaze over as they go into shock. I see that the stupidity factor is quite high here. Rabbit tdi has the only intelligent post here. The rest are Anosognosics. DunningKruger syndrome http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/the-anosognosics-dilemma-1/ [Edited by: nsdp at 12/20/2012 1:59:03 PM EST]
mst150 Champion Author Detroit Posts:1,271 Points:162,780 Joined:Dec 2012	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 9:30:09 AM Ignore mst150 Report Abuse No one foresaw this problem?
drpepperTX Champion Author Texas Posts:8,969 Points:755,380 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 9:14:34 AM Ignore drpepperTX Report Abuse A great article submission SUVfan, clearly it deserved a top spot on the news page.
SUVFan Champion Author Columbus Posts:13,933 Points:1,636,500 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 7:23:38 AM Ignore SUVFan Report Abuse I'm pleased to see this piece found the home page yesterday. Sorry about the typo in spelling Chronicle. Ouch. Regarding the substance of the piece, the simple fact is that the way solar power is being implemented gives these "energy producers" a free ride on the grid that has to be made up by traditional users. And the argument "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" breaks down quickly as there are fewer and fewer traditional customers to pay for the grid. It's exposed pretty much as a ponzi scheme.
gravityhurts Champion Author North Carolina Posts:4,108 Points:940,430 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Dec 20, 2012 5:26:21 AM Ignore gravityhurts Report Abuse Very sad. Every time you think something sounds good and it makes good use of natural resources something comes along to screw it up.
Doomsday64 All-Star Author Austin Posts:879 Points:339,930 Joined:Apr 2011	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:21:15 PM Ignore Doomsday64 Report Abuse people in California are getting screwed at every turn.
jetskijerry Champion Author North Carolina Posts:3,916 Points:776,270 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:20:59 PM Ignore jetskijerry Report Abuse crooks
ican2step Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:1,696 Points:430,325 Joined:Feb 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:19:00 PM Ignore ican2step Report Abuse Quinn's First Law: "Liberalism (AKA: Obama Socialism) always creates the exact opposite of its stated intent"
craigsf38 Champion Author Rochester Posts:5,728 Points:1,513,930 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:18:58 PM Ignore craigsf38 Report Abuse Disappointing but not a surprise
crreed1 Champion Author West Virginia Posts:2,005 Points:2,530,335 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:17:01 PM Ignore crreed1 Report Abuse this will happen everywhere
bridgerunner Champion Author Virginia Posts:4,802 Points:1,009,760 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:16:55 PM Ignore bridgerunner Report Abuse "...they have bigger problems than this..." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- So, so true!
10k Champion Author North Carolina Posts:21,286 Points:2,258,020 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:16:13 PM Ignore 10k Report Abuse has PG & E ever been trustworthy ??..
rabbit_tdi Sophomore Author North Carolina Posts:135 Points:495,620 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:15:38 PM Ignore rabbit_tdi Report Abuse Hogwash. Every electric power rate schedule I have ever seen had a flat charge for the connection to the power grid, and on top of that was added a per kilowatt-hour charge for the electricity that one used (or subtracted, in the case of selling electricity to the power company). The flat charge for the connection is supposed to cover the fixed costs of the meter, transformer, wires, poles, &c. The power company set this rate. If the flat charge is not large enough to cover these costs, whose fault is that? The power company's, of course!
tedjm1 Champion Author New York Posts:5,609 Points:800,300 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:14:55 PM Ignore tedjm1 Report Abuse Not a fair thing I expect. I would be furious to get billed higher nfor that reason.
vrossi46 Champion Author San Jose Posts:2,682 Points:806,870 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:14:51 PM Ignore vrossi46 Report Abuse they have bigger problems than this
rsox67 All-Star Author Connecticut Posts:707 Points:268,860 Joined:Jul 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:13:56 PM Ignore rsox67 Report Abuse Why should they pay retail.
bugc Champion Author Boston Posts:15,072 Points:3,008,040 Joined:Mar 2004	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:12:56 PM Ignore bugc Report Abuse This can't continue indefinately.
Bubba44612 Champion Author Ohio Posts:7,411 Points:1,880,005 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:12:17 PM Ignore Bubba44612 Report Abuse Well that is the cost of living in California. Just quite using electricity or get your own solar power.
geminijax Champion Author Jacksonville Posts:16,836 Points:2,730,000 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:10:30 PM Ignore geminijax Report Abuse This is exactly the same kind of problem that occurs when more people start going on govt assistance/programs. Eventually, in order to pay for these, taxes on the productive must be raised. Note to self: never become a CA resident.
pa79th Champion Author Pennsylvania Posts:1,802 Points:1,220,100 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:09:43 PM Ignore pa79th Report Abuse What does this have to do with the price of gasoline?
TxDaleJr88Fan Champion Author College Station Posts:4,106 Points:329,675 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:09:38 PM Ignore TxDaleJr88Fan Report Abuse A Californian style rip off
LocalSpyGuy Champion Author Tampa Posts:7,815 Points:1,588,100 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:09:14 PM Ignore LocalSpyGuy Report Abuse but will it bring down costs overall?
bevmill Champion Author Georgia Posts:2,597 Points:603,470 Joined:Apr 2006	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:08:08 PM Ignore bevmill Report Abuse ok
rahcat Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:2,488 Points:666,200 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:04:57 PM Ignore rahcat Report Abuse People in California are getting screwed at every turn.
ricebike Champion Author New Jersey Posts:10,048 Points:1,858,645 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:04:53 PM Ignore ricebike Report Abuse yup
cheaper0ON Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,003 Points:401,305 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:04:30 PM Ignore cheaper0ON Report Abuse Okay.
yakstar Champion Author Montreal Posts:2,440 Points:482,895 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:03:39 PM Ignore yakstar Report Abuse super ouch!
suzmar Champion Author Texas Posts:2,214 Points:874,980 Joined:Jun 2006	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:03:38 PM Ignore suzmar Report Abuse This is another example of intrusive government doing more harm than good.
Darwin00 All-Star Author Mississippi Posts:832 Points:272,495 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:02:45 PM Ignore Darwin00 Report Abuse I understand the issue and prices will eventually have to go up; it is just good to see the power companies that it in the shorts for a little while.
joekool1 Champion Author Toledo Posts:1,099 Points:131,280 Joined:Sep 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 10:02:02 PM Ignore joekool1 Report Abuse ouch
cheaper0ON Champion Author Ontario Posts:1,003 Points:401,305 Joined:Jan 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:59:26 PM Ignore cheaper0ON Report Abuse Okay.
SparkieMi Champion Author Kalamazoo Posts:3,282 Points:592,405 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:55:13 PM Ignore SparkieMi Report Abuse Just great!!!
nehemiah Champion Author Portland Posts:4,776 Points:933,540 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:54:46 PM Ignore nehemiah Report Abuse should make it easier to install solar for people don't have it
CCLighthouse Champion Author Hartford Posts:1,023 Points:216,930 Joined:Aug 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:52:53 PM Ignore CCLighthouse Report Abuse If you producing energy and the only place you could sell it was to your power operator you would want to get the same price they'd charge you for it. However, the power operator gets to sell it to your neighbors who don't have solar generators. You are actually helping.
monarch57 Champion Author British Columbia Posts:1,631 Points:135,945 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:51:04 PM Ignore monarch57 Report Abuse Any excuse to gouge people for more money and the governments don't care.
NHLiveFree Champion Author New Hampshire Posts:11,119 Points:1,626,150 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:50:19 PM Ignore NHLiveFree Report Abuse Much cheaper than the subsidies necessary with a new nuclear power plant plus our future cost for disposal/storage of the spent fuel rods for 5000 years.
clermont40miles Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:10,596 Points:1,775,795 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:49:55 PM Ignore clermont40miles Report Abuse "You can't purchase wholesale power at retail prices and not affect your bottom line," Bradford said. "Utilities are seeing it already." More greenie nonsense being shown to hurt rather than help.
mstearno Champion Author Dayton Posts:8,085 Points:1,735,115 Joined:Jan 2008	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:44:38 PM Ignore mstearno Report Abuse no kidding
mdskier Champion Author Maryland Posts:9,950 Points:1,785,715 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:44:25 PM Ignore mdskier Report Abuse PG&E probably came up with this twisted article. We need more Solar not less.
BREW9 All-Star Author Tampa Posts:901 Points:2,915,880 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:40:20 PM Ignore BREW9 Report Abuse naturally
dvrm9 Sophomore Author Alberta Posts:147 Points:124,020 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:39:40 PM Ignore dvrm9 Report Abuse Does not sound reasonable.
gasmack Champion Author Ventura Posts:1,721 Points:671,345 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:37:26 PM Ignore gasmack Report Abuse Agree with jrsva. CA should rewrite rules to include provision like VA.
OGW Champion Author London Posts:5,334 Points:1,534,725 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:34:25 PM Ignore OGW Report Abuse That is criminal!
BlewettCA Veteran Author California Posts:318 Points:240,410 Joined:May 2012	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:33:33 PM Ignore BlewettCA Report Abuse ok
CorvairHaven Champion Author Cleveland Posts:4,364 Points:1,456,640 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:30:18 PM Ignore CorvairHaven Report Abuse Thieves.
Alfied Champion Author Riverside Posts:7,955 Points:1,759,185 Joined:Jun 2001	Message Posted: Dec 19, 2012 9:29:14 PM Ignore Alfied Report Abuse Of course.