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Tracking Bakken oil movement: 40 percent of SW North Dakota crude leaves via railway

Dickinson Press -- While some in Dickinson — particularly on the south side of town — might only notice a passing train when it’s holding up traffic at a crossing or when its horn is alerting motorists and pedestrians, the railroad is actually a key logistic component of the Bakken oil play.

Because of the lack of pipeline alternatives to move oil to refineries, when the North Dakota Oil Patch began to explode a few years ago, energy companies turned to moving much of their crude by railway. One of the largest railroad transportation companies in the U.S., BNSF Railway has stepped to the plate as the Oil Patch has played a key role in the country’s push toward energy independence.


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Submitted Dec 02, 2012 By: BurntOrange
Category: Daily News Article Discussions > Topics Add to favorite topics  
Author Topic: Tracking Bakken oil movement: 40 percent of SW North Dakota crude leaves via railway Back to Topics
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KAR120CSII
Champion Author Oregon

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Message Posted: Dec 9, 2012 8:11:42 PM

Yep, but not most of the common folks -- and they're getting put out of their rental houses and stores and paying high prices for groceries and crime is up.
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honda0105
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 3:43:44 AM

KAR: many ppl there also get paid royally high wages.
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Alaydown
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Dec 5, 2012 2:29:09 AM

Interesting info from drpepperTX about nsdp. Maybe it is just another bad lawyer joke. I see that nsdp still has not provided any data to refute the stats we provided which originated from the DOT.
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KAR120CSII
Champion Author Oregon

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 9:58:25 AM

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But how about the price of gas in Dickinson, Minot and Williston? They're (ND) getting s*****d.

And Happy Holidays.

[Edited by: KAR120CSII at 12/4/2012 11:59:57 AM EST]
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drpepperTX
Champion Author Texas

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 8:08:35 AM

Interesting...search for State Bar # 09864400 on the State Bar of Texas site returns no result? Perhaps another typo by nsdp? Maybe licensed in another state?



[Edited by: drpepperTX at 12/4/2012 10:10:35 AM EST]
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honda0105
Champion Author Tallahassee

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Message Posted: Dec 4, 2012 3:56:03 AM

and another topic creates a need to boost one's ego. Too bad the spirit of community is not even alive and well in the pre-holiday season.
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LetemEatCake
Champion Author Oklahoma City

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2012 9:09:26 PM


Ooops Burnt Orange!
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nsdp
Champion Author San Antonio

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2012 8:46:22 PM

The Manhattan Institute has an undisclosed Conflict of interest. Look at their funding.

No I don't invent my qualifications. Let's start with US Patent Numbers 8169101(May1,2012), 8256219(September 4th, 2012) and 8281590 (October 9,2012) http://www.patentgenius.com/assignee/CanyonWestEnergyLLC.html World Patent Office WO/2010/021706 http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=WO2010021706&recNum=1&docAn=US2009004726&queryString=FP:%28edward%20hinders%29&maxRec=1
And current activities EUEC Conference sponsored by DOE, EEI, EPRI, Track E Session 5.4 http://euec.com/getattachment/Index/Brochure_2013.pdf.aspx E5.4 SYNERGIZING ENHANCED GEOTHERMAL, WIND & HYDROGEN FOR POWER GENERATION
Elsewhere I practiced law appearing nearly entirely in Federal court. This shows I was counsel of record for Amoco Gas Company a subsidiary of Standard Oil of Indiana. https://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/777/777.F2d.554.83-2523.html If you root around the unpublished opinions of the 5th Circuit you will find I appeared there as well as a member of the Federal Public defenders A Panel. Case is unreported because the US Sentencing Commission issued an instruction that Judge Higginbotham was wrong when he departed from the existing case law in Marmalejos vs US.

I appear regularly in FERC Reports as Counsel of record(100+ times) for Valero Transmission, Valgas, Valero Gathering, Valero Interstate Transmission(NG Pipelines) and Valero Hydrocarbons (liquids pipelines). State Bar no 09864400. I can't seem to find my Professional Engineering lic. no right now. As you can see as they say I have been hitting major league curve balls for a long time. Please demonstrate that you have advanced beyond T-Ball.

Now Burnt Orange and Alaydown demonstrate you have sufficient qualifications to pour water out of a boot without reading the instructions on the heel.



[Edited by: nsdp at 12/3/2012 10:50:28 PM EST]
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Alaydown
Champion Author Los Angeles

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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2012 1:24:07 AM

BurntOrange, Great reply to nsdp. I would also add that the Manhattan Institute Study report that you cited used data from the Department of Transportation. The report and article links are repeated below. My previous post on this subject is repeated below the links.

OGW is correct in his post, and nsdp is wrong. OGW: "Moving crude by rail is far more dangerous to people and the environment than moving it by modern monitored pipelines."

We need something until we can get more pipelines built, and rail will have to do for now. Read more after the links.

http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/ir_17.htm

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2012/06/21/pipelines_the_safest_way_to_move_fuel_99730.html

It is funny that those who have written against the Keystone XL in the past (and now) are not writing here against the use of rail to transport oil when there is greater danger of an oil spill from rail transport than there is from a pipeline. The major reason opponents have against the Keystone XL is the potential for oil spills. But statistically, rail is a more dangerous method of transport for oil. It is also costlier and less efficient. Too much energy is used to move oil by rail compared to pipelines, and the higher cost is also passed on to the consumer. I wish this article were more thorough in its reporting. If 40 percent of SW North Dakota crude is transported by rail, what moves the remaining 60 percent? How much of that is by road and how much is by pipeline?

Obviously we need some method for transporting the oil until pipelines can be built. These other means should be only temporary until pipelines are in place.

More than likely, getting enough pipelines built has been held up because of environmental impact statement approval and because of the holdup on the Keystone XL which was supposed to move much of the oil from this region. The oil boom in North Dakota has made it the state with the lowest unemployment rate at 3.1 percent as of October. If they are going to continue to grow in production, they desperately need these additional pipelines (including the US portion of the Keystone XL) approved and built. If Obama had already approved Keystone, we would be that much closer to resolving the problem with oil transport. He should also fast-track approval for other pipelines that are needed here with a higher priority than he places on “green” companies.

America has 175,000 miles of onshore and offshore oil pipelines, and 321,000 miles of natural gas transmission and gathering pipelines. Gathering pipelines bring raw natural gas from the wellhead to the gas processing plant. In addition, there are more than 2 million miles of natural gas distribution pipelines sending gas to businesses and consumers.

About 71 percent of national crude oil and petroleum products are shipped by pipeline — 882 billion ton-miles in one recent year, according to the DOT. Tanker and barge traffic accounts for 22 percent, road accounts for 4 percent, and rail accounts for 3 percent.

Most applicable to this story, it should be especially noted that over a recent four-year period, rail had the HIGHEST rate of environmental incidents -- 651 per billion ton-miles per year. Incidents include not only explosions or fires but also the release of five gallons or more of a hazardous liquid.

Road had 20 reported incidents per billion ton-miles per year, while natural gas pipelines had only 0.89 incidents per billion ton-miles per year and oil pipelines had just 0.61.

Pipelines were also responsible for fewer fatalities and injuries — 2.4 fatalities and four injuries per year for oil lines, and one fatality and 6.2 injuries for gas lines. Road transport of oil and gas averaged 10.2 fatalities and 21.8 injuries per year, and rail averaged 2.4 deaths and 25.6 injuries.

It was just last December that a national railroad strike was averted. It took more than a year to reach agreements with 12 of the 13 unions involved. The last union did not reach agreement until two months later. Warren Buffet's BNSF was one of the railroads it affected. Another potential strike sometime in the future is certainly more likely with 40 percent of North Dakota's crude oil transport at risk from a strike.

How many of the anti-pipeline/pro-railroad people on this website will be whining about the spike in oil and gasoline prices when there is another threat of strike from the many railroad unions? After the next major rail incident that involves crude oil, will these same people also acknowledge that we should have built more pipelines instead of relying too much on rail? More than likely they will blame "Big Oil" and Republicans as usual instead of correctly placing the blame on striking unions and on those who held up approval of pipelines that could have prevented the price spike or environmental incident.
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RockCity
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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2012 12:24:30 AM

It seems to matter most to those that transport the oil. It will not matter a hill a beans to the casual end user, but we do need something to be mad about and media disc jockeys are being paid outrageous sums to oblige, perhaps
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KAR120CSII
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Message Posted: Dec 3, 2012 12:01:08 AM

Dickinson isn't getting anything out of it. Some of the highest gas prices in the State.
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MDTDriver
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 10:11:48 PM

No new president so nothing will change!
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blazerbob91
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 10:08:58 PM

The election is over, Build it.
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Toppers
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 10:02:26 PM

Get that pipeline built!
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cheaper0ON
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 10:02:16 PM

ok
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joel27nc
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 10:01:33 PM

Sweet
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The3rd
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:55:47 PM

ok
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bra0712
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:54:21 PM

ummm... ok...
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Mr_Bill_W
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:52:33 PM

???
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mstearno
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:51:20 PM

Obama is a do nothing
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ty58
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:48:48 PM

yo think
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gumbyrex
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:46:11 PM

No pipeline means moving oil by rail there is no other reasonable low cost choice.
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TTQuattro
Rookie Author Indiana

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:42:10 PM

Build the pipeline then
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BurntOrange
Champion Author Austin

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:41:08 PM

ndsp wrote:

"OGW I was responsible of NTSB safety reports for Valero Energy for 6 years so I am very familiar with the reports from NTSB and Coast Guard on petroleum spills. I would like to see the statistics that backup your nonsense. The reports from the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund show pipelines due to aging infrastructure and deferred maintenance have the highest risk followed by river barges, then trucks, then TRAINS and in last place if you exclude the Exxon Valdez is coastal shipping.

Did you just make up your facts?"

-------------

Do you make up your experience?

Links comparing rail safety vs pipeline safety

Manhattan Institute Study

Article discussing rail safety versus pipeline safety

One must consider the volume transported. MUCH more oil is transported via pipeline than rail.

How about showing us some statistics instead of just making claims than cannot be proven?

[Edited by: BurntOrange at 12/2/2012 11:43:00 PM EST]
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Bald1usa
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:40:59 PM

Now you see the reluctance of this administration for pipe lines? Would not be the fact the Buffet owns the railroad - would it?

Lets see, gas price decreases - nope - they will go higher, even though we are getting more mpg with newer vehicles...the Government is losing money...our taxes per gallon...so look for an increase in fuel taxes. You know to support and maintain our roads and highway systems.
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dan30thz28
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:37:14 PM

Why not build a refinery there?
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ItsMorph
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:35:27 PM

 
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kbierley
Champion Author Dayton

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:32:10 PM

Build more Pipelines and More Refineries. The EPA can go to HELL.
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Dragnet
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:28:41 PM

Will it help prices go down? Probably not!
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BigKart
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:24:42 PM

Do what's necessary.
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abcdMA
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:21:37 PM

It's pipeline time
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skybiker
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:21:11 PM

Build the pipeline!!
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SUPERQUACK
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:21:10 PM

RAILWAYS STILL GOOD
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vcsuksu21
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:21:05 PM

Yes, buffet controls the white house and congress
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jorod55
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:20:27 PM

Better buy some BNSF stock before it sky rockets...
The pipeline on rails.
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goodbuy
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:20:08 PM

The heck with Buffet, build the pipeline.
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WebGabe
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:17:02 PM

No wonder Warren Buffet and Brak don't want Keystone...
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wayoung56
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:13:58 PM

Hmmm...
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WIPACKERFAN
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:08:45 PM

Interesting fact.
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petrpuck
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:06:53 PM

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................
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granitestater
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:06:27 PM

Burlington Northern Santa Fe? They gonna make a pile of money tranporting crude over the next hundred years...
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serrog
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:06:23 PM

good
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RAKARWOWSKI
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That is why it costs so much.
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mdotson
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:05:35 PM

@OGW - You have to move it some way.
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TheThorn
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:03:00 PM

all u folks worried about pipe leaks - know what happens when a train wrecks????
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smokinjoe54
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 9:01:32 PM

Good for them
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rawdog1313
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 8:57:04 PM

Good for them!
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NemoIL
Champion Author Illinois

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 8:56:07 PM

Because our dear leader will not approve pipelines.
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Lizzylou
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 8:56:03 PM

Good for Railway
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clermont40miles
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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 8:53:14 PM

Makes Buffett happy. He is getting richer. Like the people who sold shovels to the gold miners made more money than the miners themselves.

A recent proposal to run a pipeline from the Bakken oilfields fell apart when not enough companies signed onto committing to buying the oil if it was built.

I suspect they will again try for a pipeline and may succeed. Then the fights will start with the greens.
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nsdp
Champion Author San Antonio

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Message Posted: Dec 2, 2012 8:49:45 PM

OGW I was responsible of NTSB safety reports for Valero Energy for 6 years so I am very familiar with the reports from NTSB and Coast Guard on petroleum spills. I would like to see the statistics that backup your nonsense. The reports from the Oil Spill Liability Trust Fund show pipelines due to aging infrastructure and deferred maintenance have the highest risk followed by river barges, then trucks, then TRAINS and in last place if you exclude the Exxon Valdez is coastal shipping.

Did you just make up your facts?

[Edited by: nsdp at 12/2/2012 10:51:24 PM EST]
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